As with any group of males who share close DNA matches, it is the case that they had a ‘recent’ ancestor in common. In regards to those claiming descent from Major William Harris the most recent common ancestor probably lived about 500 years ago, as Nick Wormley comments:

“I have had a look at FTDNA’s chart of male DNA testees who they have classified as being in Harris Group 8. There are quite a number of them and they all have closely similar readings, suggesting that in age this group is very like Harris Group 4. I can only guess, but from the small number of DNA variations between any of these men, it feels likely that they all shared a single patriarch perhaps around four or five centuries ago”.

Nick further comments:

“There are 81 test results shown on the Harris Group 8 chart. In every case, their STR numbers are shown. These are all so similar that it is sufficient to place them all under the label Group 8, meaning that they all share a Harris patriarch probably several centuries ago. Since then they must have evolved into a number of different family lines, still in most cases surnamed Harris and thus cousins to each other. However these STR comparisons (the earlier, simpler method of testing) cannot show any sequence order or prove exact family relationships.

Some indication of whether they are close cousins or more distant cousins is revealed by the newer method, SNP testing. Unfortunately, only 11 testees have gone on to the further stage of having their SNPs tested, so as we only have a few SNP results available, the information that can currently be gleaned is limited.

Each of these 11 men is identified by their most recent (terminal) SNP number. Unfortunately, no further information is revealed on the chart about them apart from their surname and who they think was their earliest traced ancestor.

Such as it is, this is the limited sequence information currently known: (On its own it is simply scientific data, but it might possibly reveal something of genealogical interest if any historical knowledge can be tied to it).

As you can see, if you look at the FTDNA Group 8 chart, three of these testees are not named Harris, but they definitely share the same original patriarch. They might possibly have acquired these surnames through adoption of a Harris boy, being born out of wedlock, or maybe a young Harris widow remarrying and her children taking the name of her new husband, etc.

Think of each of the terminal SNP numbers as family sub-branches within Harris DNA Group 8.
The earliest is I-FGC6503.
A family branched from FGC6503 by developing the mutation FGC68522.
Later, a family branched from FGC68522 to become FGC68500.
The next mutation in sequence order was FGC68520.
Somebody in the 68520 family subsequently became the first man to have the terminal SNP FGC68511.
In a later generation, a son of a 68511 man developed a new SNP labled I-FT224751. This is shown on the haplotree but the testee with that number is not a member of the Harris DNA Project and so he is not named on their chart.
The two most recent branches, both descended from FT224751 are I-FT249079 and I-FT223821.

So the sequence order is:
I-FGC68503
I-FGC68522
I-FGC68500
I-FGC68520
I-FGC68511 and I-FT224751
I-FT249079 and FT223821.

Oddly, following three different surnames, the name Harris doesn’t appear in this lineage before the fourth family line in the sequence, the first to have the SNP mutation FGC68520.

It isn’t totally impossible that today’s Harris Group 8 families only started to be called Harris at that point, with all tested Harris families being descendants of that FGC68520 man. It might conceivably be that the label HARRIS Group 8 is a misnomer, with their previous ancestors having been surnamed Jordan. It looks as though something a bit strange was going on over a few generations.

However, that little side-thought is unlikely, because we can only see the results of these 11 men, which is a tiny sample and that might be distorting the picture. If more were SNP tested I expect we would soon see the name Harris occurring in the earlier sub-groups.

The SNP testees who think they are descended from Sherwood Harris, Andrew F Harris, Capt Thomas Harris and the other Harris with terminal SNP FT223821 belong to the youngest families in the sequence. They are descended from most of the others’ ancestral lines but none of the others can be descended from their families.

I don’t think it is realistic to talk about dates. Only one SNP mutation has occurred between each of the branchings, so the time between each of them could be up to several generations, but it also feels likely that the whole scientific sequence shown on the chart could have happened in North America during the past four centuries or so.

It might be that all of the testees on the Harris Group 8 DNA chart are Americans, but I cannot tell. If any Group 8 people have traced their descent from an identified ancestor living in Britain, and/or they are themselves British, then making that trans-Atlantic link public knowledge could lead to a better understanding of the origin of the entire group. Confirming the identity of a Group 8 progenitor would be revealing the early family tree of everybody who has this DNA profile. Sharing information is the only way to increase genealogical knowledge, and this can be done in a way that would not compromise anybody’s confidentiality or privacy. I know that Mr Stanhope respects those concerns fully”.

Thank you, Nick.

The grandfather of Major William Harris was almost certainly Rowland Harris, b. ca. 1560, who m. Jane Langford, in 1595, in Ludlow, Shropshire. It is of no matter if others choose to think differently, however that flies in the face of a number of facts – that is their right.

My questions are –
How many of the ancestries attached to Harris Group 8 DNA profiles have paper trails that are in the public domain and verified?

What is an example of such a proven ancestry?

ROWLAND HARRIS, b. ca. 1560.

1. Rowland Harris,* m. Jane Langford.
1.1. Thomas Harris, b. 1603, m. Alice Evans. He was the Captain Thomas Harris of Curles Neck Swamp.
1.1.1. Thomas Harris, bapt. July 24, 1627, step-br. of William and Mary Harris.
1.2. John Harris, bapt. March 5, 1604, m. Margaret Holland.
1.2.1. Mary Harris, bapt. Apr. 3. 1625. In 1689, Mary (Harris) Ligon deposed her age to be 64.
1.2.2. Major William Harris, bapt. Jan. 13, 1628, m. (1) Lucy Morris, (2) Alice Williams. His widow (Alice) m. George Alves.

(1. Thomas Adams, and Elizabeth, dau. of Richard Higgons, of Longdon. (Treswell, Vincent: The Visitation of Shropshire, 1623, vol. 1, pp. 12-13).
1.1. John Adams. Recovery: 1. Richard Lane, Thomas Brocton, gentilman, John Adams, gentilman, William Langford, Thomas Barrett, and William Lane. 2. Richard Dodmore. 7 messuages etc. in Ludlow, Diddlesbury and Halton. 1514. (Shrop. Arch., 20/6/150).
1.2. William Adams, of Longdon, m. Eleanor Jennyns, cousin of Eleanor Jennyns, b. ca. 1500, who m. Richard Harris, b. ca. 1495, grandf. of *Rowland Harris.
1.2.1. Thomas Adams ((b. ca. 1520, d. 1580), m. Ursula, dau. of Thomas Newport, of High Ercall.
1.2.1.1. William Adams, bur. July 13, 1576, in Ludlow, m. Ann Newton, May 30,. 1567.
1.2.1.1.1. Thomas Adams, gent, of Ludlow, b. ca. 1575.
1.2.1.1.1.1. William Adams, bapt. Jan. 26, 1616.
1.2.1.1.1.1.1. Thomas Adams, bapt. April 19, 1642, in Ludlow.
1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1. Robert Adams, b. ca. 1680, d. 1740, in Goochland, m. Mourning Lewis,* in 1712.
1.2.1.2.. Elizabeth Adams, m. John Morris, July 6, 1562.

1.2.1.2.1. Thomas Morris.
1.2.1.2.1.1. William Morris, bapt. June 16, 1588, ‘son of Thomas’, m. Margaret Doe, Feb. 7, 1626. Moris v Doe. Plaintiffs: William Moris and Margaret Moris his wife. Defendants: Jonas Doe. Subject: property in Ludlow. 1628. (C 8/36/124). Will of Jonas Doe, Gentleman of Ludlow, Shropshire, May 6, 1631. Margaret Doe was the dau. of Jonas, and sister of Charles Doe, Esq., of Ludlow, b. ca. 1605, knighted in 1665, sheriff of London; azure a doe trippant or between three besants on a chapeau B. turned up ermine a doe trippant or holding in mouth an oak branch p’per. Charles Doe m. a dau. of … Maplesden, of Kent. (Harl. Soc. 8, fo. 75). She was almost certainly one of the three daughters of Peter Maplesden and Katherine Eppes, married Nov. 18, 1606, sister of Captain Francis Eppes Sr., whose son and namesake (with John Worsham) valued the estate of Major William Harris, on Oct. 7, 1678.
1.2.1.2.1.1.1. Lucy Morris, bapt. Aug. 24, 1630, m. Major William Harris.

1.2.1.2.2. Jane Morris, m. Thomas Williams, Jan. 6, 1588.
1.2.1.2.2.1. Richard Williams, bapt. May 1, 1591.
1.2.1.2.2.2. Job Williams, b. ca. 1598.
1.2.1.2.2.2.1. Alice Williams, bapt. Jan. 27 1635, m. Major William Harris.
1.2.1.2.2.2.2. John Williams, bapt. Dec. 16, 1637, uncle of William Harris.*
1.2.1.2.2.2.2.1. John Williams, Jan. 26, 1679 (Surry) – Sept. 6, 1755, cousin of William Harris.*
1.2.1.2.2.2.2.1.1. Mary Williams (second-cousin of George Harris), m. Henry Graves, son of John Graves Jr., b. ca. 1675, son of “Joachim f. of Samuel Greaves and Jane”, bapt. April 7, 1642 – als John Greaves; patented land at “White Oak Landing”, adj. to Robert Cocke’s plantation. His father had given him a Hebrew name, and Johannes (medieval latin) was used as a diminuitive of such as John and Joachim, and Joachim Greaves probably chose to be called John. Henry Graves m. Mary Williams in 1726, dau. of John Williams, and sister of John Williams (b. July 25, 1704, in Hanover), husband of Mary Womack, sister of Sarah, wife of Robert Woodson, and Judith, who m. Ralph Graves, br. of Henry. (See my notes re Greaves family of Culmington and Berrington, Shropshire).
1.2.1.2.2.3. Alice Williams, bapt. March 18, 1599, m. (almost certainly as 2nd husband) Edward Giles, on Sept. 3, 1636).

1.2.2.1. *William Harris, named in father’s Will of 1678 as an infant son. He moved to New Kent Co., as evidenced on Aug. 1, 1694, when Hugh Ligon, son of Mary Harris, witnessed an acknowledgment of debt by William Harris, son of Major William Harris, decd. of New Kent Co., to Sarah Knibb of Henrico. He was involved in the determination of the lands of Thomas Langford, deceased, in 1731.
1.2.2.1.1. George Harris, bapt. April 13, 1701, in St Pauls Parish. “The confusion between two distinct lines of Harris arose from the widow of Major William Harris marrying George Alvis, who subsequently, had a son, David Alvis, who married Elizabeth Stanley, da. either of John Stanley or his brother Thomas Stanley. Two seperate groups of Harris held nearby lands; one on the upper Pamunkey River, the other to the east of along Cedar Creek, Taylor’s Branch, and Wolf Swamp. When George Harris witnesses a deed from John Stanley to William Hicks, on Sept. 6, 1734, he did so as a neighbour and peripheral kinsman (through his step-grandfather’s second marriage), and not as a member of the family of the Cedar Creek Harris”. (B.T. Shannon).
1.2.2.1.1.1. William Harris, who lived along Wolf Swamp, St. Martins Parish, Hanover Co., first appeared in the land tax list in 1762. Property taxes of William Harris in 1799 and 1800 were listed as ‘William Harris estate on Buffelow‘. This estate was last mentioned in 1805, when Graves Harris and George Harris were involved as executors of the estate.
1.2.2.1.1.1.1. George Harris, m. Sarah Hudson.
1.2.2.1.1.1.2. Ralph Harris, m. (1) Mary McCaul, (2) Agnes Baldwin, Dec. 16, 1790.
1.2.2.1.1.1.3. Graves Harris, m. Elizabeth Baldwin, sister of Agnes, Nov. 20, 1787.
1.2.2.1.2. John Harris, bapt. March 28, 1703, in in St Pauls Parish; land processioned with Paul Thilman, Mazy Wingfield, George Hudson, Daniel Fitzpatrick.

JANE LANGFORD

1. Jane Langford, m. (2) Edward Lewis, gent (bur. June 12, 1632, in Ludlow; the father by a first wife (Anna, dau. of Thomas Blashfield) of:
1.1. Thomas Lewis, b. 1600, who m. Ursula Wellings, Jan. 16, 1632, in Bromfield, the adjoining parish to Ludlow.
1.1.1. Thomas Lewis, b. ca. 1630.
1.1.2. Edward Lewis, d.v.p., bur. May 16, 1665, in Diddlesbury, m. Elizabeth …
1.1.2.1. William Lewis, bapt. March 16, 1662, in Diddlebury, probably he who m. Elizabeth, dau. of Robert Woodson, Sr. of Henrico Co.
1.1.2.1.1. *Mourning Lewis, m. Robert Adams.
1.1.2.1.1.1. Sussanah Adams, m. Mathew Graves (bapt. Oct. 23, 1710, St. Peter’s Parish. (D.B. 4, p. 118), on Feb. 4, 1712, in Henrico Co.; probably brother of Ralph Graves, who m. Judith Womack, supra.

copyright m stanhope 2021